Are faces that cover other faces BAD?

Hi

Trying to build my room in blender.  I am making this slanted wall where the fireplace sits. I have extruded from the floor to the top as you can see. However, the slanted back face of the extruded wall covers 3 faces behind it.

Is this problematic? Ie for rendering or exporting to other programs such as Unreal?

Or do I want to avoid 'doubling' faces for a cleaner mesh?

Capture1.jpeg

Capture2.jpeg

Capture3.jpeg

  • neishy replied

    Answered my own question. It is. I can't (obviously) bevel that edge ffs. How would I go about joining this extrusion to the normal walls of the room without creating non-manifold geometry?

  • Martin Bergwerf replied

    Hi nneishy ,

    I'd probably make it something like:

    Room.png

    The left one is for better seeing what is happening, in the middle one the 'hole' is filled with that Face. This way the wall has thickness, which is good.

    You can fill the bottom as well if you want, but don't worry about making it non-manifold, if you're not going to 3d print it, use Booleans or use a Subsurface Scattering on the walls or floor.

  • neishy replied

    Thanks. If you fill it with a face surely that creates an n-gon?


  • neishy replied

    And also, I can see a tri where the slanted wall is. Surely quads are preferable over tri?


  • Martin Bergwerf replied

    Yes, that's an N-gon.

    That is not a problem, unless you want to add a Subdivision Surface Modifier on your model.


  • Martin Bergwerf replied

    Same for the triangle. You can make it all quad, if you want to, but there is absolutely no reason for that in this case.


  • neishy replied

    Thanks. I see, I see. So non-manifold geometry isn't really a problem, unless you're 3D printing? Are you sure it won't cause issues in other render engines?

    Non-manifold.jpeg

    But if I did I want to get rid of non-manifold geometry, like in the instance above, how would you suggest fixing it? Thanks.

  • neishy replied

    Also, side question. Do you know what's causing this weird shading 'bloom' artefact on my mesh? Worried it could be something to do with topology. Thanks                                   weird shit.jpeg

  • Martin Bergwerf replied

    I am pretty sure that no Renderer has a problem with non-manifold geometry, after all, a Plane is non-manifold.

    But you can give the floor some thickness, if you want to:

    Room_1.png

    I don't know what is causing that shading. Maybe try changing the Viewport Lighting to see if it's persistent (try the different options, Shadow and Cavity are also fun to play with):

    Lighting.png

    It could be a topology problem; with the whole Mesh selected, try M > Merge by Distance, followed by SHIFT+N.

  • neishy replied

    Ok, I won't worry about non-manifolds for now.

    By chance, I found the fix for the weird shading. I had auto-smooth for normals turned on. Unchecking the box fixes it.

    Do you have any idea why? And what does auto-smooth do?

    normals.jpeg

  • Martin Bergwerf replied

    Hey nneishy ,

    it was not so much the Autosmooth per se, as the fact that you have Custom Split Normals (and no, I have no idea how you got them).

    You should clear them here:

    CustomNormals.png

    Auto Smooth shades angles below the given Treshold Smooth and the others Flat. Mind how the angles are measured though:

    AutoSmooth.png

  • Martin Bergwerf replied

    And I highly recommend that you take this fundamentals of mesh modeling course:

    https://cgcookie.com/courses/fundamentals-of-3d-mesh-modeling-in-blender


  • Omar Domenech replied

    The old school simple way of checking to see if you have errors is by seeing if an edge loops goes all the way. If you see it stop, you know there is a problem. 

    If you're suspicious that something is wrong with your mesh, there are various mesh analyzers on the Blender Market. They are very useful and point out any errors in your topology. Here's a link for one of those: 

    https://blendermarket.com/products/meshanalyzer-pro


  • neishy replied

    Thanks guys. Well, I did follow that course about a 1 yr ago haha. And since then I've been focusing on other aspects (texturing, nodes, sculpting, animation, lighting etc.), which resulted in me forgotting some pretty basic and important things. But I'll check it out again.

    I was playing around with the normals when trying to the get the bevel tool to work, before realising I need to apply scale first. That's why I set custom split normals data.

    Thanks for the mesh analyser addon suggestion. Are there are other addons you recommend for modeling?

    Is there an addon that fixes polygons, for example?


  • Omar Domenech replied

    I tend not to use any addons, maybe a library here or there that would make my life easier. Producing everything yourself when you're on a time crunch is not manageable.

    I don't like addons that make my life so much easier that it becomes a hindrance to me. One that fixes polygons sounds a bit too 2022. It's good to go through the fire and flames and learn through trial by fire. After you've managed to know all the basics by heart, I believe it's when you can take advantage of any addon out there. That doesn't apply to everything though, there are topics that go so deep that I will not master in a lifetime and using an addon might be a good thing. So you have to pick and choose what is more convenient for you. But again, I suggest you try to master the basics. 

    You can take a deep dive through the Blender Market, see what addons are out there that interest you. They have filters for you only focus on the modeling ones for example.